Curse

populationcontrol · Aug 10, 2007, 10:44 PM // 22:44

thats exactly my point, YOU DONT MAKE THE RULES. and once again how exactly is choosing your own strategy to kill enemies and help alllies ruining the team or backstabing (and the monk that got team killed, was i guess in ur perspective a team player), chill out its my game and just like your allowed to play anything you want others have that right as well. and once again the point of the build is to post similar strategies on fow that arent really seen in fow, and yes i value creative strategic freedom far over prejudice. this thread is for people to come up with "out of the ordinary strategies" they use to inspire people to stray from that painfully common build in fow. dont take this as a personal affront dude seriously

neoflame · Aug 10, 2007, 11:01 PM // 23:01

yeah i've been running almost the same ranger build since proph it goes

barrage
choking gas
ignite arrows
kindle arrows
read the wind
nature's renewal
tranquility
quickening zephyr

it's an awesome build and nr makes choking gas better at interrupting hexes and stuff. oh and i don't need a secondary so i go /monk to make people think i'm some noob with mending touch or a hard rez lols

upier · Aug 10, 2007, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by populationcontrol

thats exactly my point, YOU DONT MAKE THE RULES. and once again how exactly is choosing your own strategy to kill enemies and help alllies ruining the team or backstabing (and the monk that got team killed, was i guess in ur perspective a team player), chill out its my game and just like your allowed to play anything you want others have that right as well. and once again the point of the build is to post similar strategies on fow that arent really seen in fow, and yes i value creative strategic freedom far over prejudice. this thread is for people to come up with "out of the ordinary strategies" they use to inspire people to stray from that painfully common build in fow. dont take this as a personal affront dude seriously

Team leader > all other party members.
His party = his shit.
If you don't like it YOU should leave.

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by neoflame

yeah i've been running almost the same ranger build since proph it goes

barrage
choking gas
ignite arrows
kindle arrows
read the wind
nature's renewal
tranquility
quickening zephyr

it's an awesome build and nr makes choking gas better at interrupting hexes and stuff. oh and i don't need a secondary so i go /monk to make people think i'm some noob with mending touch or a hard rez lols

Liar! Tranquillity is a Factions skill

And i'm with Zinger... the build in your OP sucks. The skills from blood i don't care about... but your selection of skills from Tactics is stupid and the fact you have 3 soul reaping on a PvE necro is beyond idiotic. The fact your attempting to justify having a decent amount of life steal and ripostes (1 which requires adren) as an excuse for basically attempting to tank is EXACTLY why as a Monk i would want you kicked from the group too.

And yeah... FoW is easy, cookie cutters are not needed, but wannabe Necro life stealing riposte tanks is exactly the sort of thing a pug monk does not want to heal.

Government Flu · Aug 10, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I didn't get a full set of FoW armor for my warrior by joining teams that had elementalists using aegis and necromancers spamming vampiric gaze. While there are multiple ways to successfully run through the Fissure of Woe, if you don't use one of the builds that have been tried and true, you're cutting back your effectiveness greatly.

It's okay if you and a few friends want to experiment with different skills in an attempt to create another good build, but don't join a PUG without knowing the ins and outs of the area you want to excel at. Know the skills, know the demands, know your team, and you'll do fine.

Remember, general PvE doesn't always apply to high end areas. One person, just one person, can screw everything up for you.

MithranArkanere · Aug 10, 2007, 11:26 PM // 23:26

There should be a Polymock arena.
There people will know that more important that the build, is knowing how to use it.

Of course there are builds that work perfectly for the job. Like the infamous 'Solo Green Farmer'. But variations are always possible.

Narrowmindedness coms when they sitch you out for using 'Cry of Frustation' instead of 'Cry of Pain'.

We have the templates jus in case any of the members do not havve a good build for the area, but people should not judge so fast.

But, whatever you do, you should always tell other the real build you are taking, if they do not want it, join other party or change builds.

Malice Black · Aug 10, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by populationcontrol

thats were your wrong, your party leader does not own you, people should realize that they own themselves, its a game not the army

True BUT you're in HIS group, so you play his way or leave.

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by populationcontrol

thats were your wrong, your party leader does not own you, people should realize that they own themselves, its a game not the army

The party leader chooses what he wants from the party... why else do you get people who don't like to be the leader, even in guild/alliance teams. Who the hell said the party leader owns you... if you want to use your own build, lead your own damn party.

Sankt Hallvard · Aug 10, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

... Actually quite a good thing ^_^

Or not? Eles with aegis might be a viable choice, but certainly not for FoW. For griffon sweep alone. Just to nitpick.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 10, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Meh, Shadow Warriors are laughable.
Aegis helps against Spiders, Skellies and most of all the Abyssals and Shadow Rangers.

Deleet · Aug 10, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

You have a good pointe, but I see why they kicked you. Your build is terrible. I would kick you too.

When I go to FoW, I'm monking and I will have everyone kicked that has a build like that. I don't have all the time in the world.

pingu666 · Aug 11, 2007, 01:44 AM // 01:44

the builds pretty dubious
how about... if u really wanna run blood
1 signet of lost souls
2 blood rit
3 blood of the aggressor
4 vamparic swarm
5 soul leech/spoil victor/ enfeebling blood/icy veins
6 opressive gaze
7 well of blood/well of power
8 res

max blood, 6 or so curses, rest on soul reaping, pocket change in whatever attribute res u use.

your bulid has 4 dubious skills, vamp touch (with such low soul reaping too), riposites (lighting orb smash ur face), heal sig, when a bunch of your skills heal u anyway, and -40al ftl on a 60al caster. but u have it cos u can heal when out of energy (because of the 3 soul reaping)

having monked for low dps groups, its pretty depressing.

Kakumei · Aug 11, 2007, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by populationcontrol

thats were your wrong, your party leader does not own you, people should realize that they own themselves, its a game not the army

Haha oh man I would never ever take you in any party no matter what with an attitude like that.

See, people like this are why I don't PUG anymore.

Miral · Aug 11, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Its two sides of a coin. On one hand, you're free to take whatever skills you like. On the other hand, a group leader, especially one providing access to an area, is free to take what team build he likes. you can adapt to the build they want you to play, or start your own group with your own build in mind.

Shadis · Aug 11, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

The reasoning behind these attitudes is fairly simple. In my opinion, people no longer play these "elite" areas for fun. They are basically glorified farming runs now, so they want to use the most efficient build possible.

Omniclasm · Aug 11, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

This is one topic that sort of shows a flaw with Guild Wars. Huge amounts of skills, secondary professions to choose skills from, many different attributes, soooo much room for creativity. However, Guild Wars is a team based game, where if the teams' builds don't work together, then you fail.

Guild Wars promotes creativity and exploration of builds.
-but-
Guild Wars requires your team to have builds that agree, which means creative builds fail.

Now, I will use an example that many people have probably played....Diablo 2. Now, I'm not saying this game is perfect, far from it, but it successfully promotes, and lets you be creative. In D2, if you are playing the game with your typical Sorceress, and a Paladin joins with a really bad build, really bad armor, and keeps dying, do you fail the game and have to leave? You don't. You can still keep playing, and you and the pally can probably still do some quests and kill some bosses.

If you are playing Guild Wars, and half of your team has really bad builds and keep dying, you are screwed. Guild Wars has potential to allow diversity and creativity, but it doesn't allow it, which IMO, ruins most high-end PvE and PvP.

Even though with that said, FoW is not really high-end PvE. You can get quite far in FoW with a mixed team. I have cleared the whole place with teams that had all of the "inferior" PvE professions. Assassins, Dervish, Paragons, Mesmers, Ritualists, all of them.

Thomas Valheru · Aug 11, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

This is one topic that sort of shows a flaw with Guild Wars. Huge amounts of skills, secondary professions to choose skills from, many different attributes, soooo much room for creativity. However, Guild Wars is a team based game, where if the teams' builds don't work together, then you fail.

Guild Wars promotes creativity and exploration of builds.
-but-
Guild Wars requires your team to have builds that agree, which means creative builds fail.

Now, I will use an example that many people have probably played....Diablo 2. Now, I'm not saying this game is perfect, far from it, but it successfully promotes, and lets you be creative. In D2, if you are playing the game with your typical Sorceress, and a Paladin joins with a really bad build, really bad armor, and keeps dying, do you fail the game and have to leave? You don't. You can still keep playing, and you and the pally can probably still do some quests and kill some bosses.

If you are playing Guild Wars, and half of your team has really bad builds and keep dying, you are screwed. Guild Wars has potential to allow diversity and creativity, but it doesn't allow it, which IMO, ruins most high-end PvE and PvP.

Even though with that said, FoW is not really high-end PvE. You can get quite far in FoW with a mixed team. I have cleared the whole place with teams that had all of the "inferior" PvE professions. Assassins, Dervish, Paragons, Mesmers, Ritualists, all of them.

Now, diversity in all its glory, but how is it a bad thing that a team composed of 50% bad builds fail?
Or should we make PvE so easy that you can win bringing 8 random skills? Maybe just wanding should suffice?

ValaOfTheFens · Aug 11, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

People who don't want to ping their build either stink or are pompous jerks. I always ping my build when I enter a party. It encourages people to do the same and then I don't have give people grief by asking. *lol* Not knowing someone elses skills can be bad. Yesterday I got into a group to help a friend at Thunderhead Keep and one guy wouldn't ping his build and he turned out to be a MM like me.

If he'd pinged I could have gone SS/SV and voila, problem solved. FoW is pretty easy anyway. If you want to go against the tide with your build than I suggest you supply the scroll or the cash.

My only problem with FoW is when the monks ping their energy every 2 seconds. I make it clear that unless we're in an extended battle I will not BR them until after the battle. I only have 53 energy and I use alot of it in SS/BR. Its worse when they don't do a good job of healing me.

Omniclasm · Aug 11, 2007, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Valheru

Now, diversity in all its glory, but how is it a bad thing that a team composed of 50% bad builds fail?
Or should we make PvE so easy that you can win bringing 8 random skills? Maybe just wanding should suffice?

Diablo 2 managed to do it somehow, and it is still probably just as strong going as Guild Wars currently is, after being out for nearly 8 years. Normal, low level PvE is fine, even some mid-high end PvE is fine and is somewhat open to diverse builds. Try to get a team in DoA with a diverse build? Yeah right. Even if you do find a team with that build, you will fail miserably, or just be a liability. Guild Wars sadly isn't about being creative and making builds. It is about being another replaceable cookie-cutter build.

Not running SF ele? You get kicked and they get one of the hundred SF eles.
Missing a skill from the typical build? Kicked for one that has it.

Maybe I am just against disposable builds that you have to run. I'd like it if builds could be self sufficient, and not totally rely on other builds. Example: The absolute reliance on monks. I hate that. I think the game would be more enjoyable in some aspects if you could just get 7 random people and go bash stuff, as opposed to the "GLF 2 SF eles, Bonder, Bip or SS and MM for Masters" for hours upon hours.

Kern Wolf · Aug 11, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

To the OP:
The simplest way to overcome the narrowmindedness you face, is to create your own group for fow. You pick the people. Simple as that.
I've been doing fow runs for a long time, and I've been in a lot of different PUGs. The best ones have always been, those who knew what they were doing, almost--ALMOST--regardless of builds. I say almost, because you still have to have some kind of group dynamic to suceeed in fow. That ties in to the mentality you see that PUGs have in fow--if you go with standard builds there, your group has some reasonable amount of success, which is what the avarage player/PUG wants (along with a bunch of shards dropping at every encounter, and chests along every quest there). BUT---every now and then, you get into that PUG that will just chew through FOW with the wackiest group/builds, joking along the way, having the time of your life.
Start a PUG. Pick the people. If they're good, add them to your friend's list, and go to FOW at every opportunity then. Start a guild with them. That's the way to go.
My opinion, of course....